Kahemassiline hooratas? Eelised ühemassilise ees?

[davidsoniharald]

Miks on hea autodel kasutatav kahemassiline hooratas? Mis on tema eelised ühemassilise ees? Miks need kahemassilised ära surevad, ehk mis siis täpsemalt juhtub? Mis saab kui kahemassiline ühemassilisega asendada?

[aivar424]

Miks on hea autodel kasutatav kahemassiline hooratas? Mis on tema eelised ühemassilise ees? Miks need kahemassilised ära surevad, ehk mis siis täpsemalt juhtub? Mis saab kui kahemassiline ühemassilisega asendada?

Vedrud surevad ära ja hakkavad kolisema ja vibreerima. Kui ühemassilisega asendada, siis enamasti tekib väike vibratsioon juurde, mida kahemassilisega ei olnud. Kahemassilise eelised leiad videost.

[zorten22]

Miks on hea autodel kasutatav kahemassiline hooratas? Mis on tema eelised ühemassilise ees? Miks need kahemassilised ära surevad, ehk mis siis täpsemalt juhtub? Mis saab kui kahemassiline ühemassilisega asendada?

Eks ta vibratsiooni leevendamise pärast vist ole. Hindab ju tänapäeva hall mass rohkem pehmet, sujuvat ja vaikset kulgemist, kui kirvega tahutud, värisevat ja põrisevat massinawärki. Omast kogemusest vana A6 C4 diisliga tean, et ühemassiline tekitab pisut suurema vibratsiooni keresse tühikäigul, aga kui auto on sõitmiseks, siis sellele üleliia tähelepanu ei pööra.

[RaulK]

täpselt. Ja pekki lähevad seal need leevendused. Hakkab kolistama kohalt võttes jne. Tavalise vastu võid vahetada küll kui sama auguvalemiga 1 massilise ja kasti nuuti sobiva korvi leiad.

[Laur]

Paljudele on saada ka ühemassilist, kuid siis pead vahetama kogu komplekti mis ei tule odavam kui ainult uus kahemassiline hooratas. Ühemassilisel on leevendid ketta sees, kahemassilisel ketas jäik. Ja kui tihti siis ikka vahetad, mugavus maksab ka midagi.

[RaulK]

Vastupidi ikka. 2 massiline leevenditega.

[aivar_]

ühemassilise komplekt 1,9 tdi sharan ca 400 eur, kahemassiline ja siduriketas ka ca 400 eur. kahemassilise kestvus vähemalt 200tuh km ja tõenäoliselt kestab rohkem. ennem jõuad auto maha müüa kui teistkorda vahetama pead

[yeekim]

Kust nii kallilt ostad?
Tavaline conversion kit miski 200€

edu

[aivar_]

hinnainfo natuke vananenud jah, kiire google leidis sachs kahemassilise hooratta ca 250 eur ja kui kit 200 siis maitseasi kumb valida.

[Laur]

Vastupidi ikka. 2 massiline leevenditega.

Mida ma siis kirjutasin?
Mul vw dsg ja sellel ka kahemassiline. Uus 400€ hiljuti vahetasin

[vanalendur]

Laager mis kahe "massi" vahel istub võib ka laiali lennata.

[pühak]

Huvitav, millal KERS süsteem tavasõidukite hooratastesse sisse ronib?

[mella]

Võin tuua näite omast kogemusest.
VW T4 75kW on originaalis 2-massiline hooratas.
Asendasin Valeo 1-massilise kit-ga (hooratas+siduriketas=590+km letis). 2-massiline kvaliteethooratas üksi maksis 750EUR. Lisaks tuleb vahetada siduri töösilinder 150EUR+km letis. Hinnad 2013 aasta lõpu seisuga.
Peale vahetust on külma mootoriga tühikäigul hull vibra sees ning käigukast ka lisaks klõbiseb. Niipea, kui peale hooratta vahetust esimese käivituse tegin, oli tunne, et midagi on VÄGA valesti. Kas hooratas valesti küljes või tehases tasakaalustamata.
Kui praegu peaks vahetama, siis pigem võtaks ikkagi 2-massilise süsteemi, kuna vähemalt selle mootori puhul on vahe väga hästi tunda.
Ja sellel masinal ei kesta kindlasti isegi tehase 2-massiline hooratas nii palju. Max 190tuh. ning koliseb. Äkilisema sõidustiiliga võib arvestada 60..80tuh. siduriketta vahetuseks.

2-massilise hooratta mõte on leevendada mootori vibratsiooni ja sidurile ning jõuülekandele kanduvaid lööke. Mõte on hea, teostus osadel mudelitel ikka väga vilets.
Praegusel ajal hakkavad vaikselt 2-massiliste asemel uuesti 1-massilised tulema.

Vahetamise mõttekus 1-massilise kit-i vastu sõltub väga sõiduki mudelist. Osadle pole vahet aru saada, teistel muutub täielikuks traktoriks.
1-massilise ainsad eelised on odavam hind ja pikem eluiga.

ühemassilise komplekt 1,9 tdi sharan ca 400 eur, kahemassiline ja siduriketas ka ca 400 eur. kahemassilise kestvus vähemalt 200tuh km ja tõenäoliselt kestab rohkem. ennem jõuad auto maha müüa kui teistkorda vahetama pead

[mella]

kes tahab igasugu hädasid selles temaatikas lugeda, siis kogusin kunagi kokku:

VW T4:
truth be known my mate just had a single mass fitted with his new clutch and his van nearly shook to bits, so it went straight back in the next day to take it off and put a dmf on and i was hoping for a bite off him but ive been fully blanked, bummer

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=146773

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ACV box is ok. Stock ACV flywheel and clutch (LuK) are on the limit at that torque level. The stronger replacements (SMF+SRE) tend to cause noise from the box.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=277952

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Viimasel lehel võrdlus DMF SMF
http://www.valeoservice.com/data/master ... df?rnd=431

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Lighter flywheels make the rattle more than heavier flywheels. Last one I did was rattling terribly and I assumed it was a failing Dual Mass. I pulled it out ans oops! It was single lightened flywheel. I put in the heavy (22lb) flywheel and noise was gone.

The rattle is caused by the gears in the tranny clicking together back and forth while they spin unloaded in neutral with the clutch out. With the stock DMF setup, the rubber band effect of the DMF at low RPM dampens the engine's strong torque pulses at idle to smooth out the torque input to the transmission. With the G60/VR6 clutch setup using an SMF, the SMF doesn't provide the damping at low RPMs provided by the DMF and the strong torque pulses at idle get transmitted to the gears. The gears have a little bit of backlash and torque pulses rattle the gears while they spin unloaded.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.ph ... 873&page=1

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Converted back to DMF yesterday. Soooo much quieter and smoother than the SMF it replaces. No rattling or knocking, no shunting when on/off the accelerator.

The SMF lasted approx 17k miles. 15k trouble free, then the problems started. Glad I went back to DMF before I ended up with a smashed gearbox.

SMF's can work, but be warned, they are just too harsh for some cars, and it would seem the friction plate springs aren't up to the job of damping vibration anywhere near to the level of a DMF. All in all, not worth the risk.

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/arch ... 44839.html

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http://www.tdiblog.com/tdi-do-it-yourse ... n-between/

SMF setups do have downsides, however. First, many owners comment on the “rattle” a SMF setup in a TDI makes at idle when in neutral with the clutch engaged. Although this sound is not very loud (you’ll have to have a window down and all accessories off in the car to hear it clearly), some drivers don’t like it. Experts say the noise is actually the output shaft of the transmission rattling, a vibration dampened by the stock DMF. It does no harm. The rattle is louder with lightened flywheels.

Second, the stock DMF does dampen some harmonics caused by the TDI, and owners with a single-mass setup do comment that they can hear noise and vibration at different engine speeds not present with the DMF. This is very minor, however, and not noticed by most drivers.

However, because of the TDI’s combustion event’s violence, a lightened flywheel will transmit vibration to the cabin.

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Audi TDi kohta:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-spor ... f-smf.html

SMF rattle like hell on diesel cars and the lighter you go the worse it is. VAG changed the design of the DMF from the PD140 onwards so a lot few flywheels tend to wear out. My DMF lasted 20,000 miles while running 300+bhp. Unless you are going big power i wouldn`t bother even thinking of it to be honest.

the main drawbacks really are NVH- ( noise vibration & harshness).

That is the noise you will hear. The DMF takes the slack and vibration out of the clutch/gearbox. With no DMF everything rattles when the gearbox is not driving forward or backward with the clutch peddle up.

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T5 SMF vahetuse kohta:

Like he said.... wouldn't put a smf In mine as the vibration could kill the gear box.

DMF is designed to reduce vibration,
Lower idle speeds, higher customer expectations for nicer vehicles with less vibrations & harshness (NVH) and lower vehicle masses result in most manufacturers adopting DMF.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=210430

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MF were developed initial for the more powerfull engines to absorb the the punch eveytime a cylinder fired and by tuning the anti vibration front pulley and the DMF a smoother engine came to be. Fitting a solid flywheel for a DMF is reported to put considerable strain on the read main bearing and I read that they have had solid flywheel non OEM detroy the rear main bearing cap after stretching the bolts.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=74343

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I have asked LUK tech desk why they put a DMF on a commercial and was told that modern gearboxes can't cope with the misfire of a bad injector jolting the drive train!

Alt teine lause.

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showpost.php ... stcount=26

Skoda lehelt:
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/18 ... -question/

The daul mass is like a shock absorber, it takes away the vibration from the engine, what most suppliers say "taking the dual mass away!, the vibration has to go some where, so goes through the drive train etc"

Funnily enough I have just posted in the thread I started in September about clutch judder from my solid conversion. Im still getting bad judder in 1st and reverse.

I also have a SMF and get some judder in 1st and 2nd if I keep the revs low (e.g. 1000rpm) and engage the clutch very slowly. Otherwise it's fine

[urmas66]

Tegelikult on asja point, ühe- versus kahemassiline, ikka selles,et ruumi kokku hoida,ning autot ökomaks teha.Kui kahemassilise asemel kasutada ühemassilist,siis sama efekti andmiseks peaks ta olema kõvasti suurem,et saada sama sujuv mootori töö.Eelpool näide olemas,et kui see kahemassiline asendada sama suure ühemassilisega,siis tuleb vibra sisse.kui hooratas oleks kõvasti suurem ja raskem,siis see oleks ka takistuseks pöördesse minemisel